The Courage To Stand Up and Speak Out with Vu Le
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In This Episode
In this episode, we navigate how nonprofit leaders can speak up with courage during politically divided times. Our guest today, Vu Le, a bold voice in the nonprofit sector, combines humor with unflinching honesty to challenge systemic issues.
In this candid and vulnerable conversation, we'll explore the real costs and consequences of speaking truth to power, the responsibilities that come with privilege, and practical approaches to communicating during politically divided times. Vu shares insights on balancing organizational survival with moral imperatives and offers guidance for nonprofit leaders wrestling with when to speak up and when to step back.
Get ready for a conversation that's as thought-provoking as it is timely—because the stakes have never been higher for nonprofits navigating today's complex political landscape.
About Vu Le
Rabblerouser Vu writes the blog nonprofitAF.com. He has led two nonprofits and is involved in several movements including Crappy Funding Practices and Community-Centric Fundraising.
Connect with Vu Le
Connect with Maria
The When Bearing Witness Podcast is produced by Rustic Roots. They are video storytellers passionate about sharing the impact of nonprofits. From story ideation to beautiful and powerful videos on screen, they've got you covered. Learn more at Rusticroots.co.
Transcripts
Maria Bryan: Hello everyone. I am so thrilled to welcome Vu Le to the show. Vu is a writer, speaker, and self-described rabble-rouser who has gained a devoted following through his blog, NonprofitAF.com, where he tackles complex issues in the nonprofit sector with honesty, directness, and humor. He has led two nonprofit organizations and is involved in several movements.
I'm a big fan of both the Crappy Fundraising Practices—check that out on LinkedIn, it's really fun—and Community-Centric Fundraising, which I’m just such a big fan of. Both challenge traditional power dynamics in philanthropy.
It really is an honor to have you here today to explore how nonprofits can navigate speaking up during politically divided times. Welcome to the show.
Vu Le: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Maria Bryan: I told you this before we went live, but this is a little bit of a pep talk for me. I spent many years in my twenties unapologetic about my political views, about standing up. And there’s something about starting my consultancy that made me feel more guarded—like not wanting to offend, not wanting to push too hard, not wanting to lose money. So many reasons, for better or worse.
You are brave and bold when it comes to so many different topics in the world and in the nonprofit space. I love that you tend to do so with either directness or humor—or both.
I want to know your story. What in your background has shaped this mindset, this boldness to openly discuss hot topic issues, especially in the nonprofit space?
Vu Le: Yeah. I was born in Vietnam. My father fought against North Vietnam and was put into a reeducation camp. That was a rough period for my family. After he was released, they had taken everything—we were pretty poor. The government took all our land, and my parents were just struggling to survive.
I didn’t realize any of this at the time. But as I grew older and learned more about what happened, it made me realize that these were horrific things. It makes me more sensitive to what’s happening in the world now—like the genocide of Palestinians.
My family knows what it's like to exist in wartime. Vietnam has known occupations by different countries for thousands of years. Reflecting on those things made me realize this isn’t new. These imperialistic, colonial dynamics have existed for a long time, and the only way to resist them is to speak up and organize.
Maria Bryan: What sits with me is the privilege I have as a cis white person, and what I struggle with is what there is to lose by speaking up. I'm curious—does it kind of feel like, "There's nothing left to lose. We need to be standing up to these things"?
Vu Le: Yeah. Some of that comes from having seen the worst that could happen. We were able to survive war. We left Vietnam having lost a lot, but we survived.
That said, I’m not sure I would say there's nothing left to lose. There's still plenty. People who’ve been speaking up in support of Palestine—many have lost their careers. They’ve been deported. I’ve lost a lot of my work because of this.
And when we have families, we have to think about that. If we lose our jobs, it doesn’t just affect us—it affects our kids and everything else. So there’s a lot to lose. But we have to ask: what more could we possibly lose? What is even more important than what we might lose personally?
We have to weigh that against the loss of lives. I’ve lost speaking engagements, sure—but children are being slaughtered. My relative loss of income is minor compared to that. And I’m privileged enough to be able to find other ways to make up the gap.
Maria Bryan: I was just on a panel on trauma-informed and ethical storytelling. People are saying DEI and trauma-informed are becoming flagged terms. And now, often the folks being asked to remove DEI from their work are people of color—whose jobs are at stake.
Frank Velasquez, a dear friend and advocate for DEI, talked about this tightrope of protecting yourself and your family. You mentioned that too—finding other ways. I just want to name the real fear here. Sometimes it’s not just about not offending “Aunt Nancy.” It’s about losing your job or your safety.
And to give a content warning—I’m about to mention reproductive rights, abortion, immigration, and ICE. Please pause here if you don’t have capacity right now.
It makes me think of people with lived experience who want to share their stories—why they had an abortion, that they’re undocumented refugees—but doing so could literally put them in danger.
What are your thoughts? Are you having these kinds of conversations? Does this weigh on you too?
Vu Le: Yeah, absolutely. First, I think it’s important to name things clearly. This is not a “conflict in Palestine.” It is a genocide of Palestinians committed by Israel.
Sometimes we use unclear language to avoid trauma or controversy, but that just masks the problem.
To your question—yes, not everyone can speak up openly. Resistance comes in many forms. Some people work behind the scenes in ways that are still very valuable to the struggle. We have to honor that too.
And those of us with privilege need to ask: what can we do with our privilege that would be most helpful?
During the protests against police violence, white allies literally stood between police and people of color, knowing police were less likely to attack them. That’s one example.
Organizations with more power and resources should be setting an example—but many aren’t. Sometimes their fear is based on assumptions that aren’t even true.
Meanwhile, marginalized communities—especially women of color, trans women—are taking the brunt of the attacks. They often don’t have the luxury of staying silent. So those of us with more protection need to step in where we can.
Maria Bryan: Let’s flip this and talk about what’s at stake if we don’t engage.
Let’s be really clear—what’s at stake if we avoid these uncomfortable, political issues that may not directly impact our own communities?
Vu Le: There are very alarming signs of fascism right now—governments removing people’s rights, ignoring court orders, silencing speech.
ICE is arresting and deporting protestors. The president defies judicial checks and balances. That’s terrifying. That’s dictatorship.
We need to speak up now, because if we don’t, we may not have the right to speak up later. That’s how we get to a dystopian future where people are afraid to think or speak freely. We’ve seen this before—in Nazi Germany, in other fascist regimes.
We can’t let history repeat itself.
Maria Bryan: Switching gears a bit—you call out everything from atrocities to crappy grant applications. You use humor really effectively, and sometimes just bold directness.
Does this come naturally to you? I’ve always admired how you disarm people—sometimes making us laugh, sometimes stopping our scroll cold.
Vu Le:
I think I got my sense of humor from my dad. He was in a reeducation camp and would tell me stories about those horrific experiences—but always with humor. I didn’t get it at first.
What I’ve learned is that humor is a trauma response. It humanizes us. It reminds us of what’s still joyful in the world.
It’s also a powerful communication tool. For example, I’ve used the metaphor of nonprofits being like firefighters trying to put out fires—but funders don’t want to pay for the hose, only the water.
We’ve talked about “overhead” for years, but metaphors like that help people get it. You can’t put out fires without hoses, fire trucks, and firefighters.
Maria Bryan: Right.
Vu Le: It gives people a new way to understand things. And it reminds us of our humanity.
Maria Bryan: Right. I don’t know how long you’ve been doing it, but every Valentine’s Day—your posts crack me up.
I have to tell you a story. When I first started my consultancy in 2018 or 2019, I tweeted something like, “Nonprofits, treat your nonprofit like a business.” It didn’t go well.
Someone tagged you. You didn’t respond directly—you just posted a satirical blog about businesses giving advice to nonprofits.
It was so good. I had to shut down my Twitter. But it helped me see things more clearly. You used humor and nuance, not shame. It stayed with me.
Vu Le: I actually remember that!
Maria Bryan: You do? Wow! I was mortified, but so impressed. And honestly, it helped shift my mindset.
So, as we close—my hope for myself and others is that we become braver. What are steps people can take today to be bolder in their messaging during these incredibly difficult times?
Vu Le: I wish I had simple answers. But this is hard.
One: center the voices of those most affected. It’s human to center ourselves, but we need to decenter sometimes.
Listen to Palestinian voices, Jewish allies, folks on the front lines. Ground yourself in your values and moral compass. Ask: what is non-negotiable for me?
A simple moral test: is it ever okay to kill children? If the answer isn’t a clear no—something’s off.
We also need rest. This is long-term work. Don’t doom scroll endlessly. It drains you. Be strategic. Allocate time to stay informed and take action. If you’re not taking action, the doom scrolling just becomes harmful.
Maria Bryan: I didn’t know you’ve lost speaking gigs. People don’t always see that side of it. You come across as so strong, but you’re human. You’ve chosen to be bold and it has cost you. Thank you for being such a guiding light.
Vu Le: Thank you, Maria. I appreciate that. Yeah, I’ve lost speaking engagements. Invitations don’t come in as often anymore.
And I know other leaders who’ve lost jobs, been swatted, even worse.
But I have privilege. I can find other revenue streams if I need to—like a nonprofit-themed OnlyFans, where I read grant letters in a sexy voice while wearing a Ross Dress for Less button-down. We do what we have to.
Maria Bryan: Vu, for folks who aren’t already following you—how can they connect? And are you ready to talk about your book?
Vu Le: You can find me at NonprofitAF.com, and I’m on BlueSky, Instagram, Facebook—all @NonprofitAF.
I’m working on a book that should be out at the end of the year. It’s about reimagining everything in our sector—boards, fundraising, advocacy—all of it. Look out for it in November.
Maria Bryan: Very cool. I’m so excited.
Vu, this has been such an honor. This is a guiding conversation that I think will give people relief, clarity, and courage. Thank you for coming on When Bearing Witness.
Vu Le: Thank you.